User talk:Anderson54

Read This First

To all users of Supernatural Wiki: I would greatly appreciate it if all the users of this Community database would post their comments under the heading with their name and if there isn't one then please start a heading on this page with your username then post your comments under your heading.

Comments

MisterGlass

Actually, the paragraph says "The show replaces the biblical horseman Conquest with Pestilence", and then briefly describes Conquest, War, Famine, and Death as they appear in the Bible, so I maintain that the content of the two paragraphs is very similar, to the point of being repetitive. --MisterGlass 02:22, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Hello Anderson54! I see you added another paragraph to the Four Horsemen page under lore. It seems to repeat information present at the end of the other lore paragraph. --MisterGlass 02:31, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I suppose resurrecting Cain and Abel would have been possible, but it might have been a major disruption to the natural order. The resurrections of both Dean and Adam leveled trees, and they had been dead a comparatively short amount of time. If, as Death said, Dean's existence is an affront to the natural order, surely resurrecting two beings that have been away from Earth for thousands of years would be worse. Additionally, Sam was already primed to serve as a vessel because of the demon blood he received on his sixth month birthday. And there is something to be said for having a vessel that is familiar with the time and place in which the Apocalypse occurred. Further, there is no knowing what Cain and Abel are now. Cain killed his brother; does that mean he went to Hell? If so, surely he of all beings would be a demon, and probably an unlikely subject to consent to serve as a vessel. Neither of them would feel much connection to modern humanity. --MisterGlass 01:24, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I would not mind making a few edits, but it looks as though you are still actively editing, so I will wait until you are not working on the page. --MisterGlass 21:45, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree that the Four Horsemen page needs major work. Staxeon made some good comments below, covering most of the issues that I would have raised. I would also suggest that the main section of the page should only deal with the Horsemen as they appear in Supernatural. All references to the biblical account of the Horsemen should be confined to the lore subheading. --MisterGlass 20:48, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Hello there. Yes, I think there are some pages where headings are not necessary because there are only one or two paragraphs known about the character, so dividing that small amount of information up may not be helpful. In longer entries where it is useful, I do like the words 'characteristics' or 'attributes'. Regarding the Horsemen, I think the arguments in Heaven still fall under War's heading, because while the discontent spread like a plague, it is War that banishes peace and accord. He drives conflict. I speculate that both Pestilence and Famine had little to do with Heaven and what went on there. Their focus seems much more earthly. --MisterGlass 01:14, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

To me, superhuman speed is a 'physical' attribute of a demon moving in a meatsuit. Telekinesis is a 'mental' power. There is nothing to say that they are not interdependent, but it seems counter-intuitive to me that telekinesis would depend on a physical movement. She moved her hand rapidly, but that may not be the telekinesis at work, just her speed. My instinct is that to stop the bullet, Tammi only had to know that Dean was going to shoot, and that is a matter of perception rather than her speed of movement. Once she saw the gun, she could use her telekinesis at any moment.--MisterGlass (UTC)

I am familiar with the crown, sword, and scales as described in Revelation. It is possible that the rings represent these traditional accompaniments, as their cars represented their horses. But as we know the rings are more than symbols, and are integral to their ability to control their powers, at least where War, Famine, and Pestilence are concerned. The exact nature of the rings is somewhat still somewhat vague, so it is difficult to say more. --MisterGlass (UTC)

Castiel was without question vulnerable to both Pestilence and Famine because of his vessel, so it is likely that any other angel in his position could also be a victim. Whether or not an angel connected with Heaven would be similarly affected is difficult to say. I speculate that such an angel would be harmed by the Horsemen because, as we have seen with the Angelic Weapons, vessels of 'full' angels are still targets and can be destroyed. To me, if they can be destroyed, they can be influenced, and as long as they are influenced they will affect the angel inside. --MisterGlass (UTC)

I made my changes to the Hell page. I consider all of them minor, the page looks much improved. I suppose War could be the second Horsemen, given that Pestilence and Famine had no place in Heaven, but I do not think we have any information to say anything for certain, other than that Death is the eldest. I would say Death is my favorite, in no small part to the stellar work of Julian Richings. And Death is one of the few beings that even Dean is compelled to respect. I think there could be two interpretations of the insects around Pestilence. First, a number of insects are disease carriers, spreading the plague, yellow fever, malaria, West Nile, and a host of other ailments, so they are in a way agents of his. Second, many insects are carrion eaters, ready to feed on the dying, and where Pestilence goes, death (lower case 'd'), and therefore food, follows. --MisterGlass (UTC)

Most of the Hell information looks okay, but there are a few minor details I'd like to adjust, and a couple grammar/usage issues. Regarding the pillar of light, I speculated that it was the light emanated by Lucifer's form, channeled into a column because it was coming through the round portal, rather than his form itself. Perhaps that is semantics. --MisterGlass (UTC)

I would say that an angel is present within the vessel, not outside controlling the person, for a few reasons. The Angel Sword kills them, and if they were not within the vessel, stabbing the vessel would not have the same effect. Alastair, using a chant, tries to send Castiel "back to Heaven". Zachariah complained about "popping down into one of these smelly things", with regard to his vessel. And Holy Oil can contain an angel in a vessel, so the angel must actually be within the circle, not acting from a distance. As far as the size issue, I would suggest that the angels can fit wherever they choose to do so. Or they may be one thing in Heaven and another thing on Earth. Even the term 'physical' may not be that applicable, because it implies that which exists in the three dimensions which humans perceive. Angels are entirely other, so there is no knowing what rules actually apply. When did we see Lucifer's true form? I don't recall having seen any angel's appearance outside of a vessel.

Also, I have been looking at Hell. I think the sentences under the Characteristics heading could use some reordering. There are some descriptions of specific beings, like Samhain and the Whore of Babylon, that are repeated in the Escape from Hell section below. I think they are more useful in the second section. Actually, do we know that the Whore of Babylon was in Hell? I only remember Castiel saying "she rises" when Lucifer is on Earth. The discussion of Hell's leadership is scattered over several sentences, and I think they could be made into one paragraph. There is another sentence that says hellhounds escort human souls to Hell. While hellhounds kill the damned at the end of their deals, it seems as though reapers are the ones that actually escort souls. I see a few other things that I would like to modify. When you are finished with you editing, would you mind letting me know? I will put in my suggestions and you can review them. --MisterGlass (UTC)

Hmmm, interesting question. I hadn't thought about it, but I would speculate that just as Hell and Heaven seem to be on different planes of existence, Death's box existed outside the dimension of Earth. I doubt that it was part of Hell or Heaven, as Death had no particular allegiance. And it appears that the cage could be opened at any place of great carnage, so he may not have been confined in one earthly location. That may just have been Bobby's way of expressing the severity of the situation. He does like colorful wording. --MisterGlass (UTC)

Hello again. I'm glad to hear you got to spend time with your family. It is always nice to have that opportunity. Regarding Angel Lore, from the history it looks like I changed it from "primary paramount" to "paramount leader". At the time, I thought the original phrase was a grammatical error. "Primary paramount" seemed to me to be two similar adjectives without a noun to modify, so I removed "primary" and inserted "leader" as the noun for "paramount". I've looked at a couple of dictionaries, and one of them says that "paramount" can be used as a noun as well as an adjective, which I did not realize. This being the case, "leader" could be removed leaving "paramount" as the noun. However in this situation, I would suggest not re-inserting "primary" as a modifier, because the idea of "primary" is expressed in the definition of "paramount".

As far as the Hell page, I have a couple of things to tackle first, but I'll be sure to read through it and give you my thoughts when I have a chance. By the way, I see you added a sentence about Michael and Lucifer on the Dead...or are they? page, that finishes with "and are currently abusing Adam's soul." I think this last part is a bit speculative. It has been stated that they abused Sam's soul, but Adam has not been mentioned in this context in canon as far as I know. I have read several theories suggesting the opposite, that only Sam was being tortured. It might be best to remove the phrase until the show confirms Adam's fate. Have a nice day! --MisterGlass (UTC)

Hello Anderson54. My holidays were fine, thank you, I hope yours were as well. On December 11th I responded to a similar question from you, and gave my criteria at that time; I see they are still listed on this page. My goal is clarity. While I have edited pages after you, I do not believe I have ever reverted one of your edits. I am not trying to annoy you, but it happens that you and I are interested in editing some of the same pages. Is there a particular edit that is concerning you? --MisterGlass (UTC)

I see you finished it, and all the major players are covered. I think the definitions are a nice addition too. --MisterGlass (UTC)

Hello Anderson! I see you've been quite busy the last couple of days. Regarding the demonic section in your new Manifestation page, I believe all the relevant demonic activity is covered in the Possession page. Because "possession" is always the term used when discussing demons on the show, perhaps it would be best to post a link to the Possession or Demonic Possession pages on Manifestation under the demonic section. What do you think? And Happy Boxing Day, if you celebrate it. --MisterGlass (UTC)

I thought Appointment in Samarra was one of the best episodes so far. It is vying with Weekend at Bobby's to be my personal favorite. I was enthralled by Sam and Bobby hunting each other, and Dean and Death's confrontations were chilling. All the acting impressed me. And that final scene...what a way to leave off for hellatus. I agree, there is no way Sam can leave that drywall alone forever. Sam likes to dwell on things. I wonder how much of the last year in hell and the last year on earth he'll remember. If he ends up remembering everything RoboSam said and did and thought, it'll be like someone else was controlling him that whole year. Almost like possession. Even if he remembers nothing from hell - and I think he may have some memory, even if it only comes out in nightmares - knowing what RoboSam did ought to mess with Sam's head. --MisterGlass (UTC)

Hello! I'll touch briefly on each of your three statements. First, while God may still be on earth, it does not necessarily follow that his future plans will involve actions from Sam and Dean. As Castiel attempted to tell Dean, He works in mysterious ways, which may never be fully revealed. As for Death, he now appears to be free to follow his own plans. He may not be out to wreak havoc; he may be a more neutral force, like the reapers that follow him. It may not be necessary for him to be managed. Second, it might be nice for Sam and Dean to receive spoken support for their actions, but it may not happen. They know what they have done and why it matters, and at this point are ready to go on with their lives. They have each others' support (or will when Sam gets his soul back), and that has often been enough for them. Third, while Crowley claims to have pulled Sam and Samuel back to earth, this may or may not be true. And the idea that he is King of Hell is a new one. New information is always coming to light, so there is no guarantee that Sam and Dean will not find a way of regaining Sam's soul on their own, or with angelic assistance. We seem to have rather different perspectives, so I suppose we will have to wait and see how it works out. --MisterGlass

I am not sure that Supernatural will go that route. The series is focusing in on Sam and Dean again, and while they may get involved in Castiel and Crowley's big pictures, it may not go beyond that. And this series has always been more mystery than answers, so I suspect they'll leave God a mystery. --MisterGlass

Hello! Yes, he was an angel henchman, as confirmed by Balthazar's comment to Cas, something to the affect of 'I believe you two have flown together'. If that is the case, then the Staff of Moses can affect angels, given that he was stricken by the plague of frogs. What effect the Staff of Moses had on the angel within the vessel is unclear. It may have destroyed him, or rendered him unconscious, or forced him to leave the vessel, but at the very least he was incapacitated. As far as Pestilence's surprise in his encounter with Castiel, I interpret it in a somewhat different manner. To me, he was surprised to see an 'occupied vessel', but one without a 'speck of angel' inside, but not surprised at the effect of his powers. Castiel was more or less mortal at the time, so to think of it as an encounter between Pestilence and a real angel may be misleading. Only one of the Horsemen actually encountered a fully angelic being, and that was Famine, with Cas once again the victim. Famine affected his vessel, triggering hunger, so it seems possible that Pestilence might have been able to afflict an angel's vessel in equal measure. --MisterGlass

Hi - sorry for the delay in answering your questions but I've been on holidays for the past few weeks at Wincon and also visiting Lawrence Kansas and Stull Cemetery among other travels. I think, as with many things, canon is a bit vague, but I think the mere presence of Lucifer on Earth caused plagues and disasters. Others I think were caused by the Horsemen and I suspect, like Death, Lucifer had them under his control, although maybe they also just enjoyed the chance to cause chaos.

As to the Colt, we don't know if the five things were individuals or groups of things. So maybe it can't kill say archangels, deities, horsemen, unicorns whatever. I suspect we may never find out!

Hello Anderson 54. When I read through an article before making changes, I try to compare it to my own understanding of the show, and see if the statements in the article are clear and accurate to the best of my knowledge. If I find sentences confusing or complex, I try to break them down and explain them in a manner that seems clearer to me. If I think information or phrasing is repeated, I try to condense it down to one location (unless it is a particularly long page, where reiteration may be warranted, like Angel Lore). If there is a statement I think could be misinterpreted, I remove it or reword it. If I find two pages to be similar, I may try to transfer information from one to the other to make their content more distinctive. These are general concepts in my editing, and on occasion I do deviate from them.

You asked specifically about changes under the Leaders of the Host section in the Host of Heaven. I'll explain my changes there in detail so my rationale is clear. I'm sorry if this is more detail than you were looking for, but I want to be explicit. In the first paragraph, I moved the last sentence up because it seemed to be more concerned with the Seasons 4 and 5 understanding of host leadership. This made the last two sentences about Raphael and the civil war, which is the most up to date information. I split the information about the civil war into two sentences because I felt it was becoming a run-on sentence, and a pause was needed between the introduction of the civil war and a discussion of the combatants. I removed the phrase 'loyal to Heaven's will' because I think in this season, there is not a single will of Heaven as it was understood in seasons past, i.e. under Michael. Under the description of Michael, I removed the statement that Castiel and his allies are loyal to Michael because I do not feel this is the case. Michael wanted to fight Lucifer and end the world, and Castiel did not support this plan; he even firebombed Michael to postpone his confrontation with Lucifer. Under the description of Raphael, I shortened the first phrase because 'executes commands for angels of lower hierarchy' was unclear to me, and I do not recall Raphael ever doing work to help angels of a lower class. I deleted what was the third phrase in the paragraph about Raphael because there was a sentence later in the paragraph that dealt with Raphael's goals.

This was my thought process. I mean no offense to the originators of pages in my edits, and if you have any follow up concerns I would be willing to discuss them. --MisterGlass (UTC)

Sorry again for the delay. I see there is already a Gabriel's Horn page now, so that's good. Traditionally, Gabriel's Horn will sound during the Apocalypse. As for the disease manipulation questions: Lucifer, as an angel, would be able to inflict suffering on other in the form of illnesses much like Zachariah, but I do not think he was behind the swine flu outbreak. That would have been Pestilence, acting as part of Lucifer's apocalyptic plan. So the swine flu is connected to Lucifer's return, but he was not directly the cause. I agree that when both War and Pestilence were just kind of waiting, and when their "beeper[s] went off", they started acting out the plan. Hope you are enjoying the season so far. --MisterGlass

Missyjack

hey thanks so much so reverting the vandalism done by Temperance. I have blocked their account and prevented them from creating a new account. Thanks for all your work on the Wiki. We are not taking on anyone else to the Admin team at present, but we really appreciate all your input. And please feel free to make any suggestions about things you think the Wiki needs to me at admin@supernaturalwiki.com --Missyjack

I think the topic of Angelic Possession is adequately covered under the Vessels page. I think the word possession is not quite appropriate to the angelic situation also as it requires content of the vessel, which demonic possession obviously doesn't. Cheers --Missyjack

Sera G did mention in an interview that Death might come back...which would be awesome! --Missyjack

Hi - thanks for your idea about a "Manipulation" page. Generally we have to think how a new page would add to the Wiki - is it a term that needs explaining or something with that is different in the Supernatural 'verse. A good gauge is to think would someone visiting the Wiki either be looking for a page on that topic, or would it add to their interest or knowledge? Generally I would tend to not add pages that are very general, and I feel Manipulation is a broad term that you could say is a power of most supernatural beings.

So answer is probably no! But thanks for the idea. --Missyjack

Sure - fine to change pic, although i suspect others may change it again at some point! --Missyjack

Hi - I edited Rapahel's page as I don't think we have canon as to whether Gabriel is older or younger than Raphael. If there is canon, please reinsert the information with a link to the episode where it is stated. Also, you need to remember that as this is a multi-authored site, information you have edited may be changed by other editors. As Administrator, I do get the final say on any edits. Thanks --Missyjack (UTC)

Yes, you've done wonderful work on the Archangels pages, they are greatly improved. My only concern is in relation to the stated "birth"order of the Archangels. We know know that Gabriel and Raphael are considered the younger siblings to Michael and Lucifer, but does the show state anywhere that Raphael is the youngest of them all? If so we should add a reference, If not we should include something along the lines of "it is unclear whether Raphael is younger or older than Gabriel". --Missyjack (UTC)

Interesting observations and theory. In the absence of canon, we need to say "it is unclear whether Raphael is younger or older than Gabriel" on the pages themselves, but maybe you could put your observations on the discussion page for Archangels, as I am sure other people may find it interesting and have other views to contribute to the speculation. Maybe we'll find out more when Raphael returns. --Missyjack (UTC)

Thanks - for that work on the Archangel pages. One other bit I was thinking about was gabriel's vessel. The entry currently says : "Just like there's a chance that Cupids may be capable of instantaneous manifestation, Gabriel also may be capable of this because him using a Vessel was never mentioned in Canon whereas the other Archangel’s Vessels were presented in Canon."

Now I know what you're getting at, but I think really we've seen this with Cas, Michael (using Adam as a vessel) and Anna as well - in that they both continue to use the same vessel after its destroyed. I think Canon is pretty vague on exactly how the whole Vessel deal works - what destroys them, what happens to them when the angels are in their true form, etc. I think a more precise wording for Gabriel would be something like "While Gabriel can manifest in many guises, whether his usual form is that of a Vessel of human origin not stated." I leave it to you to think about!

--Missyjack (UTC)

I plan on unlocking the page after the airing of the last epsidoe for 2010. I figure we may get some more information on it in the next 2 epsiodes, and afetr that I'll reopen it for general editing. If there is any information you feel needs adding to the page now, please just drop me a note and I'll do it.

I also wondered - are you interested in helping with any of the episode transcriptions? They are hugely popular and people alsways tell me what a gerat resoource they are. I would love to get this season up to date and ideally all transcripts done by early 2011. I can supply you with a text file fo the dialogue - it just needs the addition of who's speaking and formatting for the Wiki. No rush, and if if you can just two one or two would be a great help. Just let me know whenever. Missyjack

Please remember I can't always reply instantly to your messages because 1) i live in Australia and there is a time difference 2) I work full-time. --Missyjack (UTC)

Don't worry too much about the Act breaks - you can leave them out. The breaks come at the end of each stage of the story. In Family Matters I'd say Act Two starts when the action moves to the Campbell Compund, Act Three starts with the scene of Sam and Dean in the car after the capture of the Alpha (or maybe back at the Campbell compund), Act Four starts with crowley's appearance. But as I said its not an exact science! --Missyjack (UTC)

Thanks for the great job on the transcript! They do take a bit of work, but so mkany people will be thrilled to have this available. cheers --Missyjack (UTC)

Sorry, but preparing the Wiki page for each episode is something I love doing and so I claim Admin privileges in doing it. I'll unprotect the page in a few hours.--Missyjack 03:21, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Good theory, but i think Sam killed Samhain. Missyjack

I've unlocked Lucifer's Cage for now. Given the controversy over the page please be careful to add only strictly canonical information and include references to any episodes which information comes from to help with verification. --Missyjack (UTC)

Hi - I didn't erase all your information - the opening para is still mainly what you wrote. I just wanted to keep the detail in there that told the whole story about Cage, and also reorder the quotes which were making the page difficult to read. Let me know if you think there is important canonical information missing. --Missyjack (UTC)

Hi - Just in relation to Raphael and Zachariah - you obviously have a strong view of how heaven's hierarchy operated, which is generally supported by canon. But we need to be careful about imposing our views on canon. So you reasoning seems to be that archangels are the most powerful angels in Heaven, and that Michael commanded Zachariah, therefore Rapahel commanded/was senior to Zachariah. Which is likely. However there is no mention of this in the Show. Prior to the end of S5 we only have an inference in 5.03 that Raphel may command some lower angels. In S6 - well the hierarchy has pretty much broken down, and again we don't have any evidence of him commanding 'senior' angels.

When the Show is vague on something I think it is best that we are too, so i would just remove the statement about any relationship between Zachariah and Rapahel.

Re: Lucifer's Cage - let me know what information you think is missing and I'll add it.

Also - can you let me know if you are going to finish the other episode transcripts. No problem if you don't want to, but I want to have all of S6 done by the end of January as they are such an important feature (People are always asking me for them!) so if you aren't going to do them I need to find other volunteers.

Thanks for all your work. --Missyjack (UTC)

Thanks - the changes read very well! --Missyjack (UTC)

Hi - have a read through Lucifer's Cage - i think all the information you have in the section you wrote are included in the opening intro and the section on the location of the Cage.--Missyjack (UTC)

Re: Manifestation page. I think the text at the beginning of the page is okay but I think the list you have doesn't add much as it simply lists first appearances of various beings on the Show. Many of these beings we now had manifested before we saw them on the show - for example Brady was possessed while Sam was in College. I think readers after information on people possessed or used as vessels would find better and more detailed info it on the character pages. A list on a page should be of things in a category not otherwise easily accessible.

So I don't think the list provides readers with useful information. What I think would helpful would be to replace this with a list of other pages relating to manifestation such as: Possession, Vessel, Angel Banishing Sigil, [{Exorcism]], Binding Link, Rituale Romanum, Devil's Trap (symbol) and a note on how they relate to manifestation. This is a collection of information someone might find useful to have drawn together.

In future, for pages like this please run the idea past me first so we can refine the idea before you work on the page. New pages really need to be a source of new and useful information. At this point in the Wiki's development, we want to avoid having pages which duplicate similar information as it makes it a chore to update them all whenever there is new canon and more difficult to ensure consistency across them all.

cheers --Missyjack (UTC)

You'll be pleased to know I finally found a reference in the Season 5 Supernatural Companion that Gabriel is the youngest of the archangels. The quote is "Gabriel is the youngest brother. He was God's greatest messenger before he grew tired of his brother's fighting, ran away from heaven and disguised himself as Loki, the Trickster." If you want to reference any of this just include S5Com as the source (this links to the S5 Companion book page. Cheers --Missyjack (UTC)

Hi - thanks for the info Alastair and the Enochian chant - could you add that and the episode references to the page on Enochian as it is missing from there. Cheers --Missyjack (UTC)

Hey there - I think information of Death's brief case would be great, but I think it should be included on the page for Death rather than as a separate page. In fact as I remember Pestilence also collected souls in a brief case so perhaps there should be information about that on Pestilence's page. You may want to add a note about briefcases and souls to the Four Horseman Page under the section on their rings, and also on the page on Souls. Happy New Year! --Missyjack (UTC)

Hey there - Sorry I can't see that the page "Earth" is necessary. I think all the information about Angels manifesting and the Apocalypse is covered on those pages. I really don't like creating new pages without substantial reason. As editors we need to think of this from a design and useability point of view for the Wiki user. On average readers come to the site for 6 minutes and visit 5 pages so it is better to keep information However you can create the page. Please ensure you stick to canon, provide references for claims, and also provide links to other relevant pages. please keep you language simple and straight forward. Sometimes your style of writing can make it hard to understand your meaning.

Can you also let me know whether you are going to complete the other episode transcripts, as I will be asking for other editors to help on this project. I am aiming to have all transcripts complete on the site by the end of January which would make the Wiki the only place on the internet with a compete set of episode transcripts. cheers Missyjack

Thanks for the catch on the Colt in 5.20 - hadn't noticed that! It should be added to the episode page, the Colt page adn Crowley's page. Bobby does actually wing him with a shot from it, befoer crowley says "that won't work on me". cheers --Missyjack (UTC)

hey there - yes the Conventions are open to everyone. If you check any Convention page, you'll find a link to the website where you can get information about which actors are attending and how to buy tickets. And each page will have links to reports adn videos from the Conventions. There are at least 15 Supernatural specific conventions on all round the world this year! --Missyjack (UTC)

And I think you are absolutely right about Gabriel's Horn and it should have an entry. i bet we will see it at some point! cheers Jules / --Missyjack

We are currently upgrading our spam bot protection, unfortunately its inevitable with a site that gets high traffic. I reverted the page Life and death to Dead...or are they" its original title. Please don't change the name of established pages. You can ask me if you think a page really needs renaming. --Missyjack 20:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC) Thank you for erasing those pages. I do appreciate your work on the Wiki. I'm afraid sometimes I am rushing - like now on my way to work - and forget my manners . --Missyjack 21:22, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up on the spam. We did install additional spam blocker software, but it obviously hasn't slowed things much. We are getting some additional tech advice and hope to get it sorted soon. Missyjack 13:13, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Rod12

Hi Anderson54 thanks for the kind words that was very nice of you. Also you do an awsome job on the site here each and everyday and its nice to see. Its also kind of ironic because alot of the pages you work on mainly are also some of my favorite Supernatural pages like the Archangels for excample. So its cool to see a fellow Supernatural fan work and try to improve some of the pages I also enjoy. I did have an idea I wanted to talk to you about how to improve the Archangel pages in a way they kind or have a similar type of format/template to all the pages so they all look similar to one another. If your interest in the idea let me know and I'll be happy to explain it more. Oh well talk you later and tommorrows Supernatural Episode should be awsome can't wait.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 my idea with the Archangel pages is we should have all the Archangel pages have an outline to all of the pages so they can all look the same and it would make the pages a little more organized. Right now the Archangel pages all have different looks to them my idea is basically lets try to organize it a little better thats all real. If you want I can send you another message with a excample of an outline idea of how I think it should look. An if you like the idea after we work on the Archangel Pages we could do the Angels pages as well. But maybe I should send you another message with that excample outline if you want it might be even more helpful in trying to explain my idea. But my idea is basically trying to organize the pages better and trying to make them look all the same. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 the Archangel Outline Idea is below I thought the outline should look something like whats below. It would show the Archangel's origin and early history first and then what ever season the Archangel first appeared in. Next would be a section for the Archangels Powers and Abilities or Characteristics as its currently been called on the site. Next would be any Equipment and Weapons the Archangel would have with him. Finaly there would be a Lore, Notes and Trivia Section. That would be the general look of the Archangel Pages outline and this outline would be on Michael, Lucifer, Gabriel and Raphael pages. Sorry for being late in responding back to you I've been a little busy from my end my but I didn't forget you don't worry. If you have questions about the outline or any ideas let me know. As for the main page titled just Archangel we will do that last first lets just focus on the actual individual Archangel Pages. Oh well talk to you later.

History

Origin

Season Four

Season Five

Season Six

Powers and Abilites

Equipment

Lore

Notes

Trivia

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I do argee with you on your Archangel Idea what my Idea deals with I guess is gettig a similar outline for all of the Archangel pages but as for the information and the order of the information it should be focused to the certain Archangel of there certain page. Oh well talk to you later and let me know what you think of the Archangel outline that we would add to the pages.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 thanks for doing the final edit work on Raphael I was actually going to send you a message after I finished looking over Michael, Lucifer and Gabriel which I'm currently in the middle of right now and ask if you could do it for so good to see you started doing it thanks alot for the help. Oh well I'll send you another message in a little bit once I'm done looking over Michael, Lucifer and Gabriel.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson52 the best way to go about editing and the main Archangel page is kind of the same way we have the Archangel pages done right now we start with the History Origin Section first then next in order the brief sections about each Archangel which are kind of already set up for us. After that next would be the Powers and Abilites Section along with the Weakness part of the Section. Now with the Angelic Appearance section thats currently on the page we do one of two things either have it in with the notes section or leave the section the way is right now either one is ok with me I'll let you make the call on that one. After that the next sections would be depending on how you decide with the Angelic Appearance Section Notes, Trivia, Lore and Links Sections. That is the best method to handle the main Archangel Page. I'm going to right now reorganize the pictures on Michael, Lucifer and Gabriel pages I've already done Raphael I'm trying to get the pictures in a better order then how they are they current look to tight together. If you want to start the main Archangel page you can oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson52 I just looked over your editing work on the main Archangel Page awsome job I only did a little editing work after you on the page but that page is now all set and completed. I'm still finishing up doing the picture editing work and then after I'm finish I was going to double check the Archangel pages just to see if we might of forgot something but I'm pretty sure we covered all areas of the page. When I'm done with the editing work from my end I'll send you another message and we can plan out what to do next if you want. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hey Anderson54 I just finished with the picture editing work and the double check editing work on all the Archangels work and its all done and completed. With the Archangel pages set I think you and me should stick with the Angel related pages and I think we can either start with the normal Angel pages like Castiel for excample and then when we finish all the normal angel pages the last thing we would do is the main Angel Lore. The other angel relate pages we could is the similar ones like the so called angel team pages like for ecample The Host of Heaven and Angel Garrison along with pages like Heaven and all of the Angel Weapons pages. Your call on what you want us to start first I'm ok with anything its basically either other angels and there respective pages or angel related teams, locations and weapons pages. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hey Anderson54 thats fine with me with doing angel pages like Castiel for excample next if you want to tell Missyjack and wait to hear what she says thats ok with me. I'm going to just look over the Angel pages and see which are the ones we should start with first and try and get a plan together on how to best go at it. But I do know Castiel's page and the Angel Lore page should be done last since those pages are still being update on a more regular bases then the other pages. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hey Anderson54 I'll do Uriel, Joshua and Zachariah while you do Anna Balthazar and I guess Cupid as well. Oh well talk to you later I'll send you a message letting you know when I finished them.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 Uriel, Joshua, Balthazar and Cupid are all done and completed. I don't know if your done with Anna yet and the other angel relate pages that aren't done are Castiel, Zachariah and Angel Lore. I'll see what I can do with pictures for the Horseman pages. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I have the picture site I use for Supernatural Images I'm just going over all of the images to find to best ones for each of the four horseman and trying to find out who needs it the most improvement with pictures as of right now it is mainly War, Famine and Pestilance. Death I'll do last. But as of right now thats the best update I have for you. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hey Anderson54 all of The Horseman pages are updated with new pictures so thats all done. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 my idea of what we could do next is actually the Horseman pages or Demon Pages. Your call my personal favorite is Horseman. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 hope you had a good Thanksgiving sure I'll be happy to do Brady's but when you say the Trucker's page are you talking about the one who appeared at the end of Season One and the begining of Season 2 I'm surprise we have a page for that certain Demon I know he had a significant moment on the show but he really just appeared briefly in both episodes. But no big deal real I'll work on that page as well do you want me to edit Ruby's page too I'll be happy to do that page. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 Brady and The Trucker pages are all edited. I also updated the pictures you uploaded with higher resolution pictures that are either the same or in general the same type scene. As for the website I go to for my Supernatural pictures is called [1] and all you need to do is go to the gallery section and there is a tone of awsome pictures to use. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 glad to see your enjoying the photo site I told you about just to let you know when you find a picture you want on the site in whatever type of gallery you can also double click on that image and make it bigger so you can get a higher resolution image basically even better then when its in its smaller form in the basic gallery. Just thought I should tell you that also as helpful advice thats all. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 which the question about sking or snowboarding I don't do either I never could get interested in either one of those two sports. As for what pages we should do next I say Pagan Gods is a good choice. As for the issue of keeping certain pages the way they are right now one the site I'm ok with that but could we possibly go back to the issue during the midseason break or at least after the current season because all you and me are doing is rearanging the pages to give the look of a page a nice outline. We're not changing the information of the pages were basically just organizing it thats all. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I stared doing some of the Pagan God pages already I did a few you can look them over if you want or just start editing the Pagan God pages I have not done yet. What ever you want to do is ok with me its your call. I do some more later. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 thats good that you like the editing work on the Pagan God pages they were suprisingly quick to edit them all. I did here Season 6 related news that Kali might return this season and maybe with her return we will see more Pagan Gods. Also in the possible return of Kali I hope that also means the return of one of my favorite Archangels Gabriel because I have heard news that he might return also this season even though he is currently dead. As for what I'm doing for Christmas basically spend time with family nothing big real just the simple Christmas traditions. I will go see the movie Tron: Legacy that is coming out this December which I'm excited to see. What are you doing on your end? Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 that good to here with Christmas in all sometimes the timples things are always the best. Oh did Missyjack send you reply yet with the episode transcript pages I'm going to do The Third Man Episode which ones are you going to do out of curiousity. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 that stinks that Missyjack hasn't sent you a message yet hope she didn't forget maybe you should remind her just in case. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I have not got to doing the transcript page yet I'm currently busy from my end. So I'll probably get around to it on Monday or Sunday Night at the earliest. If you want to start working on my episode transcript page you can. But I thought Missyjack would have given you more than one episode of scripts to work on. How many episode transcript pages did you get out of curiousity. Sorry I couldn't start it I'm just a little busy with other things. Oh well talk to you later and how did you like tonights Supernatural Episode it was awsome wasn't it at least I thought so.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I was wondering if your interested in writing The Third Man Episode Transcript since write now I'm currently busy from my end and I don't have time to work on and I do know it will take a while to do. If your interested let me know and I'll e-mail the script that Missyjack sent me to you. The script should get done by as of right now I currently don't have any time to do it or at least start some significant amount of work on it. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 the e-mail is on its way thanks again for helping me out. I forgot to ask you how did you like last weeks Supernatural Episode and even the excitement for the midseason episode coming this weak with the return of Death. Which is just awsome oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I sent the email again let me know if works ok I also sent the attachment with it as a backup just in case. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 hope you had a good christmas I was with curious with some editing work you did recently with the Archangel page and the pages of Gabriel and Raphael. On Gabriel section on the Archangel you now list him as the forth and youngest Archangel but in the actual section and on his main page you have him as the 3rd Archangel of Creation with Raphael being the youngest. But on the main Archangel page you have listed and in his section as Raphael being the 3rd Archangel of creation along with this also appearing on Raphael's main page as well. I thought the issue of who ever was created 3rd and 4th of Archangel's still remains unclear. The only true facts we actually know is Gabriel is a little brother to both Michael and Lucifer with Michael being the oldest of the four. But it hasn't officially stated on the show that either Gabriel or Raphael are either the youngest Archangels or the 3rd or 4th Archangels in Creation. I know in lore and I personally argee with it as well that Gabriel is older then Raphael and Raphael is the youngest of the 4 Archangels. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 hope you had a good Christmas I think the next type of pages we should be working on are Hunter pages like any Hunters besides the main ones of Sam Dean and Bobby like Rufus Turner for excample. I was wondering did you get a chance to read my recent message in regards to your recent editing of mainly Gabriel and Raphael pages I was curious of what your plan is with them. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 the message regarding your recent editing work on Gabriel and Raphael pages is above the current one I just wrote to you today let me know if you find it because if not I'll try sending you for a second time. As for the plan for the hunters which one are you going to start with and which ones do you want me to do out of curiousity. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 thats sounds like a good plan to me in regards to editing the Hunter pages I'll do the Campbell Family Pages but I don't think I'll touch Mary Winchester's page since that page along with the pages for John Winchester, Bobby, Dean and Sam shouldn't be touched at all since all of there pages are really very similar. But in regards to the editing work you did with the pages for Archangels and mainly Gabriel and Raphael. It should be added to those 3-pages in there notes section that it hasn't officially been confirmed on who is older or who is the youngest in regards to both Gabriel and Raphael. The only official facts we know regarding the four Archangels and there order of creation and there age is that Michael is the first Archangel created and the oldest of the four and then after him came Lucifer. The other fact is Gabriel is a little brother to both Michael and Lucifer it hasn't been confirmed in the show if he is a little or older brother to Raphael. Oh well talk to you later and I'll let you know when I finshed work on the Campbell pages. But let me know what you think of my idea for the note sections of the main Archangel page along with Gabriel and Raphael pages.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I actually have the Season 5 Official Companion book which you are referencing and I did read the Archangel definition on Archangels they gave in the book and saw that they put down Raphael being older than Gabriel but the only reason I didn't add that information to the site here one I first got the book is because I noticed a few errors in the book along with thinking is there a second source to help confirm this information even more but I couldn't finf one. Hopefully when Raphael apears again during this season or the possible return of Gabriel maybe this information we once again be confirmed to make it more official. But overall if the Season 5 Official Companion book is the reason for the editing changes to the pages of Gabriel, Raphael and the main Archangel page thats ok with me I was just curious what was the reason behind the recent editing work with those pages and what was the new information that was found regarding that certain issue. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I finished the Campbell pages there all done and completed who would you like me to do next or do you just want me to pick someone. Oh and I saw the theory you had on Death interesting theory I personally have a different one but I enjoyed reading the theory you have on him on the talk page for Death hopefully he will appear again and more will be revealed about him because he is one of Supernatural's greatest characters ever. Oh well talk to you later when you let me know what Hunter pages you want me to do next.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 thanks for the kind words regarding the Campbell pages there is probably a little more detailed work that needs to be done on those pages but my main goal was to get a general structure and outline look for all of the pages which thanfully I did. As for my theory on Death I personally believe he is the exact same as God in Power and in Age but just simply symbolize and view things differently. To me Death and God are more like best friends who have been around since creation who just disagree about things like who is older or could one another kill each other stuff like that or more importantly Humanity and Souls. I do believe personally that Death is more powerful than all of the four Archangels the reason being is because if he has been around as long as God or as he puts it possibly longer than God there is a good chance he is and if he is similar to God as the show puts it the Archangels wouldn't also be more powerful than there own father God. Another reason that in my view kind of proves that Death is more powerful than any of the Archangels is him being able to go to Hell and and simply walk in and out of Lucifer's Cage with Michael and Lucifer still inside and not letting them out and at the same time bringing back Sam's Soul and the possiblity of also bring back Adam himself body and soul. As to the whole issue of Death saying One Day I'll Reap God To maybe he can and maybe God could kill him to but that whole line is a huge reference to the Sandman Comic Book Series by Comic Book Writer Neal Gaiman who has a character of Death who speaks a very similar line and that whole Comic Book Series Eric Kripke is a big fan of it. Now as for the issue of Lucifer putting a binding spell on Death that whole line or simply story point in that episode was a sequel to the episode Faith if you remember the wife of the healder that saved Dean was controiling a Reaper by using a binding spell but in the case of Death and Lucifer bigger and better characters but in the end same result to not try and trap and use as a slave something that is more powerful than you because you won't win. Also another simple way I look at the issue God probably trained the Archangels for ways of fighting Death if they ever ran accross him. But another interesting way I look at Death is he is very similar to Bobby as figure who probably helped train the Archangels and guided them very early on. Just for for excample Bobby can take on both Dean and Sam either one at a time or separtly and win and is also extremly knowledgeable and wise. An Death as all of those same characteristics very wise extremly knowledgeable and even though we haven't seen it he could easily take on any of the Archangels and win. As for God and Death with there jobs the best and simplest way of looking at it I believe is God is the Creator of things he is always thinking of new ideas, new creations, and new stories that in the end can have either a good or bad effect on the universe. Death's job is like he said in the most recent episode keep the natural order of things in line keep things the same kind of like a janitor or a cleaner of something has to be fixed he fixs it. Sorry for the extremly long message interested to here back from you on what you think and let me also know what Hunter pages you would like me to work on next.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I just noticed you were working on Briefcase Section on the Four Horseman and you have listed as Death and Pestilence have one each Pestilence never had one it was actually Famine that had a Briefcase that contained Souls it appeared in the episode he appeared in and the episode was also the first appearance of a Soul in its True Form and we even have a picture of that briefcase with a soul coming out of it on the site I think you might of been the one to even upload it. Oh once again sorry for the long message you see above I like to write but interested to hear what you think about my theory. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I just finished all of the Harvelle Family pages so there all done and completed. So far you and me have done Rufus Turner, Pamela Barnes, Campbell Family Pages and Harvelle Family pages were really making so good progress who would you like to next via Hunter Pages. Just let me who you want who you want me to do next. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I just finished all of the Hunter Pages on the site including the main one that is simply just titled Hunters so all Hunter pages are done and completed. I'm going to look on the site and see what other pages we could work on oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hey Anderson54 thanks for the nice words with all of the hunters pages I'm happy to see there all updated they were in need of it now basically the only hunter related pages that are not edited are everyone in the Winchester Family and Bobby Singer since we won't touch those pages for awhile. Not as the pages I think we should do next my idea is we should pages like Lisa Braeden Supernatural TV Characters that are neather Hunters or Supernatural Creators let me know what you think of the idea. Oh well talk to you and hope you had a good Christmas and have a Happy New Year.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 also regarding my idea I was wondering like with the Hunter Pages and us holding off from editing the Winchester Family Pages and Bobby Singer page should we also do the same for Adam, His Mother Kate, Lisa and Ben as well because those pages seem at least to me are similar type pages that ties heavely into both the Winchester Family Pages and Bobby Singer page. Just let me know what you think of that suggestion regarding my editing idea. An also let me know what pages you want me to start with first. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I just wanted to let you know I'm still working on the human pages on the site basically the non hunter page and the non supernatural creature pages. But I was wondering what do you think of the idea of creating a page for Natural Order and one for Dreamworld. The Natural Order one I thought might be a good type of page to have on the site since Death mention it and it seems it like its a important element to the shows story overall. As for the Dreamworld page idea that mainly pertains to the angels powers of talking to you in your dreams and interacting with you while your asleep and dreaming. Just curious what you think of the two ideas. The Natural Order page seems the most important out of two to me the Dreamworld page idea might could be used in another page on the site. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 I think your absolutely right with wanting to reorganize and reconstruct the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse that entire page needs a good cleanup in every area of the page. When it does get cleaned up I hope it eventually looks like the Archangel page which both you and me worked on together in similar fashion with general cleanup editing work of that page with reorganize and reconstruct. Right now I view the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse page as being very disorganized with information in random areas of the page and overall the page basically has no order to it. It doesn't have a general template or outline that you and me have worked hard together in improving the pages on the site here. Overall with your idea of fixing the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse I got your back and support your idea for fixing the page and hopefully we can get in to look like the Archangel page which you and me worked on. Oh well talk to you later and if you need any help let me know.

From Rod12

Hi Anderson54 sure of course I'm willing to help and work with you on cleaning of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse main page if you remember when we first started you and me teaming up doing reorganize and reconstructing editing work on the site after we finished all the angel related pages I actually suggested we work on Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse main page. Now how do you want to start working on the page because we can't work on it exactly at the same time we would have to take turns working on the page. Also is there an area do you want to focus on editing mainly because from my side I'll be happy to work on the Sections such as Episodes they appeared in, trivia, lore, equipment and reference. But just tell me what section you want to focus on and you can edit it first and then when your done just let me know and I'll start a section and then let you know when I'm done and will just keep switching off until were all done. Oh well talk to you later.

From Rod12

Staxeon

Re: Four Horsemen, you're right, that page needs work. Its not a "smooth" read and has alot of duplicate information on the same page. The page is for the Four Horsemen, I think the focus should be their relation as a group and their role together in the apocalypse, they each have their own separate pages for individual detailed info, especially Death. I'm not sure if the briefcases should be listed there (only 2 of the 4 have been shown to have them, maybe on their separate pages instead), and if they are listed they should definitely be listed AFTER the rings. Maybe in a section called "possessions" or "equipment" or something, also listing or showing their cars/horses (since they are Horsemen after all, its literally what defines them). Whatever or however its done, I definitely think we should keep the group dynamic in mind while editting the page. Their shared characteristics (cars, rings, etc.), their group role, and their shared relations with other characters. Again, they each have their own pages for detailed individual info. --Staxeon 18:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Regarding the Castiel article and episodes; both lists were identical prior to my edit. It was literally one entire screen of duplicate information. Right side had the list in the character box, left side had the same list in the content box. Yes the links on the right would take you to the seperate episode pages, but if you click a content link on the left it takes you down the episode section with (again) a link to the episode page. We should be trying to present information in a thorough but streamlined and concise manner, being redundant makes the page look unorganized and "scatterbrained" (for lack of better term). --Staxeon 23:35, 20 January 2011 (UTC)