Thanks for the welcome!!
I'm afraid I have to agree with you about your disagreement. It's like saying I am superior to God, but I am just a hairless ape, so how much more than saying Archangels are superior to Principalities or Powers?! Since Lucifer was able to put Death under a spell, the Horsemen must not be a higher order of angels. But who knows what Supernatural has in store for the horsemen in the future, maybe they will appear in the sixth season? -Ano-User 06:34, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
- Hey Sonic, sorry about the late response, but I'm just commenting to say that, yeah I got a lot of Wiki accounts on a diversity of subjects. However, I don't know what to expect on the 6th Season of Supernatural, but I can imagine that Lucifer in Sam will be the main antagonist, and Dean will be the main protagonist, of course. The apocalypse is not over, it had only just begun during the 5th season; that is if Supernatural follows the Book of Revelation to its entirety. If Supernatural is willing to let Jesus Christ be incarnated in Chuck Shurley to establish the Kingdom of God on Earth, then that will be very interesting (the Prophet Chuck is seen to be God himself, if not Jesus, by many fans). If that is the case, then the show definitely will have a Left Behind-esque type of plot to it. But at the same time, it will not be entirely devoted to a fundamentalist Christian outlook concerning the Last Days, for the show certainly conjures up many surprises. --Ano-User 01:36, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi SonicShocker it was never stated in any Supernatural Episode that Raphael is the youngest of the Four Archangels but it was never stated that Gabriel was either. What we know as I guess we can call it Supernatural Fact is Michael and Lucifer are the first two Archangels created by God and there little brothers are Gabriel and Raphael. But it has never been implied in any episode that he is the youngest brother among the Four Archangels. I believe when he had his battle with Lucifer it was implied in a way of talking down to your little brother. You could be right but we have only seen Michael vs Lucifer and Lucifer were Gabriel and in those two different episode were the only time we have seen and interaction with more than one Archangel. We have yet to see Raphael interact with any other Archangel or Angel since he was only in one episode. In lore it is implied that Gabriel is the older brother of Raphael and thats how I personly choose to look at it. But I think the best way to go about this issue is since we don't which brother is the older or yonger and we also don't how powerful they are in comparing the two we should simply state it in a way of us not being sure yet and also Supernatural Season 6 has stated we are probably going to see both Gabriel and Raphael again during this coming season. If you want to talk some more about it I'm happy to talk about it the Archangels of Supernatural are my favorite. Oh well talk to you later.
Hello! In the context of the Supernatural universe, Hell is where both demons and damned humans are contained and tormented. I do not know when it was created relative to the transformation of Lilith into a demon; if her creation is analogous in Supernatural to the Fall of Man, then it would be afterward, as there was no prior reason for its existence. That being said, I am uncertain who would have created it. While God in Supernatural may have ordered the imprisonment of Lucifer, it may have been Michael that created Lucifer's Cage. It was he that "imprisoned him with 66 seals." Michael has been in charge of Heaven for an extended time, and he accuses Lucifer of "[making] our father leave". Perhaps in the aftermath of God's departure from Heaven, which may have occurred before the actual imprisonment of Lucifer, the angels had to deal with the creation of demons on their own, and Hell was the solution they came up with. However, there are inconsistencies, in particular because Hell seems to be under demonic management, and is used to churn out more demons. And in order to get Dean out, they "laid siege to Hell". They cannot access it easily. It would have made more sense for the angels to obliterate all trace of Lilith and her ilk while there were only a few of them, rather than to give them a place to replicate. The only being this seems to help is Lucifer. Perhaps he created Hell before his imprisonment as a means of perpetuating demons, and they serve him because they are unaware. Or, perhaps the higher level demons are aware, but ally themselves with Lucifer as their creator and as a fellow enemy of Heaven. Either way, Hell is a mystery, and any clear explanation in Supernatural would probably require some retcon.
P.S. - While demons have demonstrated superhuman strength, I do not immediately recall an instance of superhuman speed. I think the word superhuman loses some of its impact when it is used multiple times, so perhaps a phrase like "superhuman physical abilities" could be substituted for strength and speed as a means of summarizing. --MisterGlass 18:16, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello again. I do not think their essence per se is in the rings. I see them more as a tool they use to access or channel their more significant abilities, or something that magnifies their existing powers. Pestilence did not disappear immediately when Castiel cut the ring off. He stayed a few moments, gripping his hand, and then teleported when he chose to do so. Because he had control over his body after losing the ring and because he could still transport himself, I would say a certain number of the Horsemen's powers are inherent. It may be more analogous to an angel losing its Grace. Anna still had some powers as a human, including telekinesis and the ability to see demons, but was much, much weaker. Perhaps the Horsemen still had their powers to some degree, but not in such a way that they could really help with the Apocalypse anymore.
Unlike an angel regaining its Grace, Brady said that putting the rings back on would not bring the Horsemen back. It may be that the power they have exists as a bond between the Horsemen and the ring. The power may have been released when they were separated from the rings, and reuniting with the rings does not immediately return the power. Perhaps it takes time to reform the bond and regenerate the power.
The question about their corporeal form is difficult, but they would need to have one in order to wear and use the rings, even if it was not their 'true form'. Otherwise, severing the Horsemen's fingers to remove the rings would not have been useful. And Pestilence and War left behind blood, which non-corporeal beings would not have done. As for War's arrival, It seems likely that he was already on Earth before he arrived in Colorado, in spite of the prophecy's literal interpretation. He stated that he had been in Darfur immediately prior to Lucifer's rising. And he has the red mustang with him, and may have driven into the town over the bridge and then destroyed it.
A conclusive answer to these questions is difficult based on only three Horsemen. If only Death would conform. --MisterGlass 1:07, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Now that is a puzzle. A theory I read (I'm sorry, I cannot remember which user proposed it) was that the angels made the swords after Lucifer rebelled, but that they were not carried in the field after Lucifer was confined to the cage. Uriel managed to steal/acquire one, but carrying them on a regular basis was not approved until after Lucifer had risen and Castiel had rebelled. This is not a bad theory, and covers most bases.
For my part, I would like to know if the swords kill demons as well as angels. However, they have only been shown as weapons against angels. The question becomes who has the greatest reason to kill angels. Michael certainly doesn't seem to need a sword, considering how he dispatched Anna, and as you said he went unarmed to meet Lucifer. Lucifer does not take Gabriel's weapon after killing him with it, as far as we know. He has certainly killed many powerful beings without needing weapons.
And yet while Lucifer does not need a weapon, I would suggest that he may have made the first angel killing sword. When he rebelled, he was up against the Host of Heaven, and may have wanted a back-up to his powers. Or, maybe he made it as the ultimate insult to his family: a weapon that would kill them in anyone's hands. If the sword was taken from him when he was imprisoned, it may have been kept in Heaven. Maybe the upper level angels experimented and found out how he made it, then created a few more. Production began in earnest after Lucifer returned because the average angel didn't have the power to take him on alone. Season 5 is when all angelic soldiers first seem to be carrying swords.
It's an odd little theory, I admit. But it would explain why some literature refers to Uriel's weapon as the 'sword of Lucifer', and why Castiel never suspected that it might be the reason angels were dying. He thought the swords were all in Heaven's possession, and didn't suspect an angel would take one. He must have been shocked when Uriel revealed that he had the weapon. Somehow he was able to keep that sword, or acquire one when he rebelled. That Gabriel had a sword is interesting. But then Lucifer did say Gabriel learned all his tricks from him, and that may include how to make a sword. Gabriel may have feared that Heaven would come after him when he left.
You suggested it might have a terrestrial origin, and that's true. We still do not know where Ruby's knife came from. Maybe both are earthly, from some hunting civilization. --MisterGlass 2:10, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Hey there - Just wanted to let you know we've started a SuperWiki blog so that we can all have a chance to discuss the show better. As one of our regular editors, I'd love any suggestions of topics you think we can talk about, or Wiki pages we might feature. Cheers --Missyjack 06:32, 28 August 2010 (UTC)